lol, the sense of entitlement is strong in this one Padwan


I am more than happy to have free SP if they want to refund my whole one week or so of training but seriously I really do not care if they do or not.

Its because as a result of the change you are actually getting a week of training for free, you will get 3 skills for either two or one compared to someone who subs after summer.

Also SP obsessed players eventually quit so its not a habit to encourage.


Note that there is nothing been said either way about SP reimbursement, it may still happen. (The main reason they are WARY of SP reimbursement isprobably that every time they do it, people then whine demanding more for a year or more afterwards).

Because it's nonsensical to demand a reimbursement for something you gain from. Worst-case scenario, you get 33% more SP in the skills than you had. Apparently, this huge insult requires another 50% of that SP as a GÇ£reimbursementGÇ¥. Of course, a more proper way to describe that is to say you want a bonus on top of your bonus GÇö you are given half a week worth of training, but want to be compensated for this gift by being given another week worth of training.

There is nothing to reimburse. Nothing is lost. Nothing is wasted. You got exactly the abilities you trained for.
If you tried to speculate on a patch change, you lost. That's part of speculation and it was easily avoidable if you paid any kind of attention, so suck it up and do better next time GÇö it's not CCP's role to make up for your mistakes.

I'm glad to see more people posting in this thread! Seems there are more people not completely content with the proposed changes.


Of course, Tippia is still here as well:
Do you really not see that you yourself (no! don't go looking at other players again, Tippia) don't benefit in any way from these 33% "free SP's"?


Time is lost. Time = SP. Please reimburse SP.


As I stated before, I think CCP intents players to "speculate" on the information that is in devblogs. If they did not want this, they would simply release a patch without warning.

For those of us who don't want to read 11 pages of man children whining at each other, should combat drone op 5 be trained or no?

GǪand as you can se, I am.
Just because your nonsensical view isGǪ wellGǪ nonsensical doesn't mean people don't get it or that they're trolling. It just means they don't agree with the nonsense.

And yes, trying to claim that getting more is a loss is nothing short of nonsense.

GǪwhich is also very common. Again, just because you jumped on something before the details were out does not mean CCP owes you anything or that they did anything wrong. It means you made an uninformed decision and speculated on a change you didn't fully understand. You end up with less gain than if you had made a sensible decision GÇö that's your problem and not something that needs any kind of fix or compensation.

All devblogs are always subject to change up until the minute you see it in a patch note. Dev blogs for changes that are two months out even more so. Jumping on changes the second they are suggested and not waiting a day or two GÇö especially when, again, the change is two months out GÇö is also nonsensical. Even if you make that silly mistake, claiming that it's anyone else's fault that you kept making the mistake even after the information was out is more nonsensical yet.

GǪand had you stayed informed; had you had a sensible approach to dev blogs; had you planned ahead, you wouldn't have made that mistake. It's still your mistake though GÇö not something you can blame CCP for.

GǪwhich still means you're not losing anything GÇö not time, not ability, not any mechanics GÇö so no matter how much you twist and turn, there simply is nothing to reimburse.

Maybe I misunderstood the nature of James' complaint then. I took it to mean that what he was losing was the performance difference he trained for, rather than the training time change.

Edit: Actually, he's losing in training advantage as you describe it to anyone who trained SDO V but CDO to anything less than V.

Then, with SDO trained to V and CDO not trained you would be able to use T2 light and medium drones before the change, but only T2 light and T1 medium after the change.

So you're not getting the extra SP everyone else is? How do you know this when the patch isn't even out yet? Have you looked into the patch transition scripts to see that your name is on a list of characters to exclude?

You trained for the prerequisite time to collect the 768k SP. For this, you got the expected 768k SP. That SP is being turned into 1024k SP. In other words, the money and time you spent to train that character was turned into exactly the amount of SP you'd expect from that timeframe, and then some. If we just look at CDO V, and the 512k SP collected for it, you're being given 256k SP GÇö 50% GÇö more than you actually trained for.

Your loss. I don't always agree with Tippia but he's not a troll.

Well, to be fair, now and then Tippia is a troll.
Now is not one of those times however, if Tippia & I aren't ripping into each other but agreeing, it's normally a pretty strong sign some other people are lacking common sense.

To lay it out yet again.
Current skills.
SDO: Drone Range + Light & Medium T2 Drones
CDO: Light & Medium Drone Damage.

Post Change Skills.
DA: Drone Range
LDO: Light Drone Damage + Light T2 Drones.
MDO: Medium Drone Damage + Medium T2 Drones.

So, someone with SDO V has access to T2 drones currently. Post patch day they should still have access to T2 drones so they need LDO & MDO at V in order to gain that.
Someone with SDO V has drone range, so they need DA V to gain that.
Someone with CDO V has Damage so they need LDO & MDO V to gain that.

This means is you have only SDO V you get a bit more damage from skills as a by-product.
This means if you have only CDO V you gain access to T2 drones as a by product.
If you have both, you are right where you are now.
But CCP's choice here is to not remove the ability to do what you can currently.

As to why the SP is irrelevant. If they suddenly change a skill from *1 multi to *10 multi, should you have to train another 30 days to be where you were before they changed? The answer is no. SP doesn't have a 'value'. SP gets you skills which have abilities which have values.
So the value is on the ability, not the SP to get there. The SP to get there provides some judgement between ability values, but the abilities are the important part. Meaning it's irrelevant how many extra sp someone else gains or even you gain. What is relevant is if you agree with the basic philosophy that a skill change should never make you loose abilities.

TLDR. CCP is preserving current abilities, this has a small side effect in edge cases & deliberately gamed cases of giving a minor new ability in order to avoid removing abilities. If you disagree, convince CCP the entire design philosophy is wrong, don't argue on 'SP bonus isn't fair'.

Anyone who trained it in the tiny window between the initial post and post 630 has had months of value from their drones doing more damage. So has gotten value for it.
Anyone who trained it after that failed to both read the posts, & understand the meaning of a Dev blog as a proposed change taking final feedback. Till it's in patch notes, it's not 100% final. And failed to do homework properly while attempting to speculate on maximising their SP, and they still make an SP profit.
In none of these cases do they need any additional compensation.

It is disappointing that member of our hallowed community cannot seemingly understand, or are unwilling too, each others points of view.

To me I would summarise it like this -

Side A - The skill transition is unfair because the advantage which I spent time skill training for is now being given to others.

Side B - The skill transition is fair because we are getting more free SP and keeping all our previous abilities to use things which we trained to use before (except for the DLA II in edge cases)

Both points of view are quite valid.

I'd be in the Side B area - with our without "free SP". The SP means nothing to me and probably anyone who trained the skills up - newer or not (beyond some envy on gains by others).

You train skills to enable styles of play. They are changing around the skills but these changes will not impact your ability with those styles of play.

The fact some may gain or not gain SP is fairly meaningless vs your abilities to use the tools you had trained for when you are *NOT* losing those abilities - simply shuffling them around.

So some gain more than others? Sorry but that shouldn't be a major concern.

Umm... That's what I'm saying - I don't care if we get free SP but I do find it fair.

Side A finds it unfair. Side B finds it fair due to SP gains.

Because side A is demanding they get more advantage over someone who hasn't trained any of the skills yet simply because they feel they deserve a larger number. Not because they loose any abilities or anything like that. Remember there is side C. The group who haven't trained drones and will be behind regardless.

Side A already is getting more sp for their time. They just want to take their bonus sp they are already getting and make it an even bigger number that they can allocate to any skill for an even larger time advantage.

Except for the fact that is what side A is asking for effectively by demanding they get free SP equivalent to CDO V......
Just prettied up in a dress and make up.

So.... No.

Since we're all insisting on everything being fair, can I ask that CCP refund my character a sum of ISK equal to the differential clone cost for having more SP than I did before simply with Scout Drone Operation V? I don't find this character really using medium drones and don't feel like it's fair for me to pay extra to upgrade my clone each time for SPs I didn't ask for.

I would like this ISK refund to factor in the total unnecessary costs I will incur over this pilot's lifetime.